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Post by Evilduck on Apr 24, 2003 19:14:11 GMT -5
It is generally good to have an intelectuall debate with the other person, where you both try to prove your point and listen to each other. Then one or the other will usually reform his/her beliefs.
If not: 1. One (or both) person is not arguing well 2. One (or both) person is a stubborn, ignorant fool 3. One (or both) person is not listening
But I find it faster to assume that I am right, and that anyone who disagrees with me is stupid.
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Post by Dr.Quack on Apr 24, 2003 19:28:51 GMT -5
Or one (or both) people are true to their beliefs and strong with them, and thus it wouldn't matter if they're stubborn or poor arguers as long as the beliefs are sticky. I'm supposing you mean stubborn to also mean full of pride.
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Post by Devastatingly Yours on Apr 26, 2003 11:38:34 GMT -5
There were advanced societies long before Germany became advanced in most any way.
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Post by Dr.Quack on Apr 26, 2003 14:53:40 GMT -5
Yes, but at the rise of the Nazis, no other society was as advanced as the Aryan race had advanced themselves. So shouldn't it make sense that they should rule the rest of them?
Disclaimer: I am currently playing devil's advocate. My goal is to reject your beliefs in support of beliefs you find totally illogical. Yet, from the eyes of those who also support those seemingly illogical beliefs, they think your ideas are totally illogical. So will you reject someone else's belief system from them because it does not correspond with yours?
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Post by BlueDolphin on Apr 26, 2003 19:47:10 GMT -5
You can reject anything. What you can't do is to hurt others to bring your belief to them, unless the safety of yourself or others are harmed by them.
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Post by dietspam16 on May 12, 2003 0:11:15 GMT -5
many cultures were more advanced than the germans, the chinese come to mind as do the romans and greeks, particularly the alexandrian library
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Post by BlueDolphin on May 12, 2003 17:28:16 GMT -5
I think Jeff meant at the time, not the total acheiviments to the date. If one considered the current level of technology, the U.S. and some European countries would be on top.
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Post by dietspam16 on May 12, 2003 18:18:52 GMT -5
i think the holocaust, and they're losing the war sufficient proof that they wern't the most sophisticated or advanced culture.
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Post by stuffmaster on May 12, 2003 19:47:21 GMT -5
Perhaps this isn't a matter of right and wrong, or logical or illogical, but rather of who believes more strongly in their values. You can't show someone something if they aren't willing to open thier eyes.
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Post by BlueDolphin on May 12, 2003 20:20:31 GMT -5
Good point. That is why it is not good to argue with someone if they are not willing to look at new ideas.
The sophistication of a culture can never be determined for sure. There is no culture rating or a way of truely measuring a culture as we can technology level. The Nazis thought that they were the most advanced culture thus, driving them to world domination. This certainly isn't true to us, but must have made perfect sense to them. And in the book Things Fall Apart, the culture of the Ibo (mutiliating babies burning houses down because of an accident etc.) people seemed okay to them, but not to so much to outsiders.
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Post by Dr.Quack on May 12, 2003 21:45:24 GMT -5
i think the holocaust, and they're losing the war sufficient proof that they wern't the most sophisticated or advanced culture. But the Holocaust was justified with that they were the most advanced race at the time, and they only lost the war because they were severely outnumbered. The causualties they caused the allies was far greater than the causualties that the allies caused the axis powers.
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Post by Dr.Quack on May 12, 2003 21:46:33 GMT -5
And also, cultural superiority is relative.
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Post by dietspam16 on Jun 10, 2003 15:14:10 GMT -5
well, going back to jeffs first statement about logical, the problem is, that this is almost entirly a matter of opinion, in which you can use logic to back up your opinion, but its still an opinion hat can't be proved one way or the other.
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Post by BlueDolphin on May 14, 2007 15:32:15 GMT -5
The power of logic is undefeatable if used correctly. I'd like to reply to my earlier self again (I hope I'm not offending the mods) and say that logic isn't always infallible. Ideally it would work but sometimes one cannot be entirely sure about the data being right. Because of this, there is no way to be sure whether you are right or not even when being logical. Something like this was mentioned in the Trees falling in the forest topic that Henry posted. We cannot know 100% sure. jeff, i think you may be one of the most logical people i know. not that you make sense the most out of any person i know, but that you enjoy and use logic the most..... I know this member has been off the forum for a long time now... but I do hope I'm making more sense nowadays.
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