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Post by Blues on Jul 15, 2006 1:42:32 GMT -5
it's detter than any kind of warcraft game, that's for sure.
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Post by Random on Jul 15, 2006 2:56:23 GMT -5
Note: ignore this post if you think that PSO is a worthwile game because this post is really just a pointless flame. Its not even funny or sarcastic. It can be summed up in 3 words. I hate PSO. There, you read it, now ignore the rest of this and do something constructive. just to make it public: I beat PSO, ep1 on ultimate. PJ and I had a race going. Congratulations for wasting your time! To me, thats kind of like saying, I spent a total of 3 months of my life sitting in front of a TV playing a game by myself and finally got further than someone else. Now, you may say that everyone else plays computer games or video games, but it takes a special kind of patience to play a game that takes minimul skill and includes limited social interaction for that long. (ie it would be another thing to say have played pac man for that long but mastered it so that you can beat all 255 levels, or played DDR that much and achieved 9 step level.) If you cant tell, I really dont like single player RPGs that much, but PSO in my opinion takes the cake because theres not even really any story that goes along with it (or at least there isnt in the multiplayer version) and Im sure whatever story it does have in single player is probably pretty crappy and repetitive. For the sake of activity and disagreement, here we go, even if you said to ignore it. This is just too full of crap in my opinion. Ok. Congratulations on wasting probably about 5-10 minutes writing a post because you're anal about disliking a game! You never really extensively played or owned PSO, so try not to bitch about a storyline you don't even know the general direction of. Hell apparently you don't even know it exists. Also when you say minimal skill (which you also really wouldn't have any idea about but thats ok I'll ignore it for now), I'm assuming you're also in some way including how repetitive it is, which I find ironic considering I remember you saying that you liked Diablo Lastly, just to finish this pathetic little rant off. . . technically speaking PSO isn't an RPG. . . it depends how you categorize them. Had you actually looked at the game long enough to form an opinion based on anything other than your initial reaction, you might've noticed that its an MMORPG and the single player offline stuff is kind of not the main part of the game, just no one in our group of friends plays it online.
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Post by Blues on Jul 15, 2006 3:04:02 GMT -5
I agree.
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Post by Evilduck on Jul 15, 2006 3:06:10 GMT -5
Just to clarify, isn't an MMORPG not played online basically an RPG?
It is no longer massive, multiplayer, or most importatnly of all online. I saw PSO, and I think it seems fun. I agree that it also seems repetitive but that is like all other MMORPG's and Diablo. Diablo is a fun game despite being repetitive, so I imagine the same would work for PSO so long as it has a good variety of items and skills 'n stuff.
and I must disagree with Ali's point about how playing PSO is different that playing pac man or DDR. Essentialy all three examples are about spending time to train your skills in a simulated world that can mostly only be applicable to that world. And then brag about it and say (I beat PSO on ultimate, I beat all levels of pac man)
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Post by Random on Jul 15, 2006 3:19:19 GMT -5
MMORPG is VERY VERY VERY different from just an "online RPG" unless you recognize that by saying "online" you are including an incredible number of aspects that greatly alter the way the game is played and the overall style of the game.
and I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Hes saying PSO sucks, one of his points was no social interaction. Single player PSO IS NOT MEANT TO BE THE FULL GAME. it is an MMORPG, the single player aspect is a side part so that it can sell to people who don't like monthly fees.
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Post by Arachis on Jul 15, 2006 16:09:59 GMT -5
Ok.. let me clarify. I meant that PSO sucks in the way which you went about playing it (since thats the only experience I have had playing it too). If you had played it online I might have thought differently about the game.
Also, to refute Levs, claim about rpgs and other games being similar. In general, other games involve perfecting a set of skills needed to advance to later levels. Rpgs on the other hand generally require only minimal skill, and mostly memory (ie saying the right thing, going to the right place, using the right move). So while most games require skill to beat (and usuallly the lasting games are the ones which are hard enough that not anyone can beat) rpgs just require time and patience to beat. This can be rewarding when there are puzzles to solve (like zelda (and yes, I think zelda is an rpg) or like Alundra) or when there is a story to follow through. To my knowledge, and please, correct me if Im wrong, but PSO has neither of those things (except for a basic story thats hardly even important). MMORPGs in general are pretty pathetic in that sense (to the extent that I dont really like MMORPGs, and yes, I am being hypocritical since I have played one) but at least they do have social interaction. PSO doesnt have that either (at least not the way you play it). If there is a redeeming quality about PSO that I am forgetting, please tell me. The only reason I can think of to play it is just the addictive nature of levelling a character and finding better and rarer items. But I would get bored of the repetition way too quickly for that to let me play for more than a couple hours.
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Post by Random on Jul 15, 2006 16:47:06 GMT -5
Ok.. let me clarify. I meant that PSO sucks in the way which you went about playing it (since thats the only experience I have had playing it too). If you had played it online I might have thought differently about the game. Also, to refute Levs, claim about rpgs and other games being similar. In general, other games involve perfecting a set of skills needed to advance to later levels. Rpgs on the other hand generally require only minimal skill, and mostly memory (ie saying the right thing, going to the right place, using the right move). So while most games require skill to beat (and usuallly the lasting games are the ones which are hard enough that not anyone can beat) rpgs just require time and patience to beat. This can be rewarding when there are puzzles to solve (like zelda (and yes, I think zelda is an rpg) or like Alundra) or when there is a story to follow through. To my knowledge, and please, correct me if Im wrong, but PSO has neither of those things (except for a basic story thats hardly even important). MMORPGs in general are pretty pathetic in that sense (to the extent that I dont really like MMORPGs, and yes, I am being hypocritical since I have played one) but at least they do have social interaction. PSO doesnt have that either (at least not the way you play it). If there is a redeeming quality about PSO that I am forgetting, please tell me. The only reason I can think of to play it is just the addictive nature of levelling a character and finding better and rarer items. But I would get bored of the repetition way too quickly for that to let me play for more than a couple hours. The only reason you didn't like PSO the way we went about playing it was basically because you weren't part of the group that had the game and leveled around the same times. You never had your own character that didn't suck basically. first big error: you're using the RPG genre's definition far too broadly. Zelda and PSO are action RPGs, which are very different from the traditional RPGs that you are trying to characterize them as. In action RPGs, you have to develop some kind of pattern for fighting usually, and its in real time. PSO requires skill to beat bosses and get through levels, and though those skills are quite simple, they're aren't easy to deal with. second problem: your take on PSO's story. They did not emphasize the story AT ALL. You can go through the entire game without knowing wtf you're doing in the caves, or mines, or ruins or whatever, however, if you do look at the capsules and talk to NPCs there is a storyline and it is semi-interesting. I mean, its something that most people could come up with, but its still decent, even if its not very well executed. Additionally theres some stuff in the quests thats interesting to have as a bit of a nice side-story type thing. Just to touch on it, PSO doesn't deal with too many puzzles, but there are some dumb little things that you have to think about for a second, most of them involve traps. As far as MMORPGs go, if you think that they're dull and without storyline and all that you must've played some incredibly shitty games or you never got far enough to see anyting interesting. FFXI for example, because I've played it. Its overall probably about a 7 or 8 on a scale of 10 as far as MMORPGs go, however, it has a great storyline that they made comlex enough that you can't really spoil it for people in a "snape kills dumbeldor" fashion (yay for ytmnd). Also, many MMOs have puzzles. FFXI has a few. . .though actually the entire game is a freaking puzzle because the NPCs are so vague you have to decipher what they want you to do in quests.
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Post by Evilduck on Jul 15, 2006 22:42:51 GMT -5
I disagree with RPGs only needing patience to beat. To win at an RPG you need a skillset similar to powergaming in D&D where you have to level up your characters correctly and give them the right items. Sure the battle doesn't require as much skill as quake because it is turn by turn and doesnt have as much strategy as Civ, but the skills come in during character design.
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Post by Blues on Jul 15, 2006 22:58:50 GMT -5
Ok.. let me clarify. I meant that PSO sucks in the way which you went about playing it (since thats the only experience I have had playing it too). If you had played it online I might have thought differently about the game. Also, to refute Levs, claim about rpgs and other games being similar. In general, other games involve perfecting a set of skills needed to advance to later levels. Rpgs on the other hand generally require only minimal skill, and mostly memory (ie saying the right thing, going to the right place, using the right move). So while most games require skill to beat (and usuallly the lasting games are the ones which are hard enough that not anyone can beat) rpgs just require time and patience to beat. This can be rewarding when there are puzzles to solve (like zelda (and yes, I think zelda is an rpg) or like Alundra) or when there is a story to follow through. To my knowledge, and please, correct me if Im wrong, but PSO has neither of those things (except for a basic story thats hardly even important). MMORPGs in general are pretty pathetic in that sense (to the extent that I dont really like MMORPGs, and yes, I am being hypocritical since I have played one) but at least they do have social interaction. PSO doesnt have that either (at least not the way you play it). If there is a redeeming quality about PSO that I am forgetting, please tell me. The only reason I can think of to play it is just the addictive nature of levelling a character and finding better and rarer items. But I would get bored of the repetition way too quickly for that to let me play for more than a couple hours. The only reason you didn't like PSO the way we went about playing it was basically because you weren't part of the group that had the game and leveled around the same times. You never had your own character that didn't suck basically. first big error: you're using the RPG genre's definition far too broadly. Zelda and PSO are action RPGs, which are very different from the traditional RPGs that you are trying to characterize them as. In action RPGs, you have to develop some kind of pattern for fighting usually, and its in real time. PSO requires skill to beat bosses and get through levels, and though those skills are quite simple, they're aren't easy to deal with. second problem: your take on PSO's story. They did not emphasize the story AT ALL. You can go through the entire game without knowing wtf you're doing in the caves, or mines, or ruins or whatever, however, if you do look at the capsules and talk to NPCs there is a storyline and it is semi-interesting. I mean, its something that most people could come up with, but its still decent, even if its not very well executed. Additionally theres some stuff in the quests thats interesting to have as a bit of a nice side-story type thing. Just to touch on it, PSO doesn't deal with too many puzzles, but there are some dumb little things that you have to think about for a second, most of them involve traps. As far as MMORPGs go, if you think that they're dull and without storyline and all that you must've played some incredibly shitty games or you never got far enough to see anyting interesting. FFXI for example, because I've played it. Its overall probably about a 7 or 8 on a scale of 10 as far as MMORPGs go, however, it has a great storyline that they made comlex enough that you can't really spoil it for people in a "snape kills dumbeldor" fashion (yay for ytmnd). Also, many MMOs have puzzles. FFXI has a few. . .though actually the entire game is a freaking puzzle because the NPCs are so vague you have to decipher what they want you to do in quests. Ali, if you did single player ever, you'd know that there is in fact a story, and it's a rather good one. you just have to take the time to read the messages in the level.
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Post by Arachis on Jul 16, 2006 2:00:53 GMT -5
@lev First of all not all rpgs even let you do much character customization, and a lot of them try and balance it so that no matter what skills you choose they are all pretty much equal. Second, to powergame like you can in D&D you need to know what values the game assigns to calculate damage and health, which the game does not always tell you. Also its easy to just read strategy guides and be just as good as someone whos actually good.
Finally, Ive never seen an rpg which actually requires you to powergame in order to beat it (therefore implying that while there are skills involved in rpgs, none of them are required). If you are really having trouble in a section because you designed your character poorly, well then you just keep fighting until you lvl up some more. When a game no longer challenges a certain skill set, it can not really be said to actually include it. Otherwise you could say that RPGs are reading games, and that they are worthwile simply because they make you read.
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Post by Random on Jul 16, 2006 2:24:31 GMT -5
@lev First of all not all rpgs even let you do much character customization, and a lot of them try and balance it so that no matter what skills you choose they are all pretty much equal. Second, to powergame like you can in D&D you need to know what values the game assigns to calculate damage and health, which the game does not always tell you. Also its easy to just read strategy guides and be just as good as someone whos actually good. Finally, Ive never seen an rpg which actually requires you to powergame in order to beat it (therefore implying that while there are skills involved in rpgs, none of them are required). If you are really having trouble in a section because you designed your character poorly, well then you just keep fighting until you lvl up some more. When a game no longer challenges a certain skill set, it can not really be said to actually include it. Otherwise you could say that RPGs are reading games, and that they are worthwile simply because they make you read. more issues wanna know whats funny about that first bit about finding out formulas and values? the good players all do that. the figure out how the game works, and they use it to their advantage. haha, read strategy guides and be just as good as anyone else. . . ok who here thinks ali has never really played many/any real RPGs? not only is that statement so far off from reality it makes me laugh, its as effective with RPGs as it is with any other game with the last paragraph, I'm going to bring up the question of how many RPGs you've played again, and what they were.
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Post by Evilduck on Jul 16, 2006 2:49:10 GMT -5
I agree with JP.
I want to add that leveling up way past the level you are supposed to be obviousley will present little challenge and is the equivalent of using cheat codes in a different game.
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Post by Monolith on Jul 17, 2006 1:56:37 GMT -5
I hate to say it Ali but your misconceived opinion is a pile of crap. Maybe PSO doesn't require a lot of special skill to beat (though it is certainly required to some extent, not that you'd know from your rather insignificant romp through a few levels of the game) but generalizing that RPGs require little skill is simply wrong. The whole concept of RPG combat is something called strategy, which I'd assume someone who was a member of the chess club to understand. While it's possible to level up your character high enough so there is simply no challenge to the game, but if you want to actually be productive with your time then you figure out combinations of skills and attacks that allow you to get through the game's battles. RPGs are about making the most effective decision at the right time, using logic and outplaying the enemy. Examples? FFX is teeming with them. You will get eaten alive if you don't know what you're doing and aren't creative when fighting bosses. Shin Megami Tensei is another example. If you screw up and fail to exploit the enemy's weakness, you'll do little damage and get your ass handed to you when the enemy's turn comes up. I don't know what you've been playing, but it must be the bilge of the RPG business to support that opinion.
In any case, who cares if Terrance's accomplishment didn't live up to your standards of blazing success, he seems to have enjoyed himself which is far more important when spending one's leisure time.
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Post by Random on Jul 17, 2006 13:08:07 GMT -5
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Post by caffine10x on Jul 17, 2006 21:06:46 GMT -5
haha this thread is funny!
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