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Post by dietspam16 on Sept 6, 2005 14:32:02 GMT -5
statement: the U.S. fails at integration, diversity, and mixingpotness. different races and cultures are seperated and do not mix or share in heritage. those that cross the line become americanized. its iimpossible to enjoy the best of both worlds.
Defy me
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Post by Random on Sept 6, 2005 16:33:35 GMT -5
in a very broad sense the U.S. succeeds at generalized integration because there are a lot of different groups of people in the country, but on more local scales I agree with you
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Post by dietspam16 on Sept 6, 2005 17:42:32 GMT -5
one big problem is the driving though. so many people from different navigational backgrounds(left side right side, no cars, ride a mule etc) that traffic is terrifying
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Post by Random on Sept 6, 2005 17:44:13 GMT -5
thats true, i agree, but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is if there wasn't the huge reliance on personal cars to get from place to place
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Post by dietspam16 on Sept 6, 2005 17:53:04 GMT -5
yah. first day here though, walkled down the street, within half n hour, 5 near car accidents and serious road rage issues
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Post by Random on Sept 6, 2005 17:59:38 GMT -5
you mean in canada?
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Post by Evilduck on Sept 6, 2005 18:57:10 GMT -5
Ok, transportation is not a big part of culture, people can still learn to dirve cars while preserving their ancestral beliefs.
I think the US does an ok job at integrating cultures because there is a wide diversity of nationalities present and they seem to keep up traditions just fine. Albeit, many individuals in the US are highly racist moronic, but I haven't been to the midwest so I cannot judge (just complain, critisize, and put down)
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Post by Arachis on Sept 6, 2005 19:02:27 GMT -5
well that depends on how you see integration. If those who cross the lines become "americanized" and americanization is a culture made up of beliefs from all the other cultures then in that case, become american is in fact the equivalent of integrating.
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Post by dietspam16 on Sept 6, 2005 20:32:32 GMT -5
but american culture is just the white western culture. and the cars thing wasn't relted to actul integration, just amount of different races. and sure we have different races and cultures. but if you go to toronto, there are sooo many more. I"m literally a huge minority.(not as in alot of us, but rather very minor) its that way in school, and on the street, your at least as likely to run iinto someone who is indian, african(like from africa, not slace descendant) greek, mexican, armenian, pakistani, as you are an anglosaxon. and not only that. the distribution is mostly equal. your as likely to see a ceo of a company be black as white, and they are also in the schools. the first time a had a black kid in my class was senio year back home, thats sad! i'm amazed i'm rooming with two white guys, since theere are about five of us in my year. also, people learn how to talk and converse in the canadian culture, while still preserving their roots perfectly, living double or triple cultural lives.
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Post by Arachis on Sept 6, 2005 21:06:48 GMT -5
well... I cant say Ive experienced Canada, but I think part of it is demographics. Quite simply, there are less black people in california. Im sure however that you are seeing less mexicans and asians over there. The fact that you are used to seeing plenty of mexicans and asians has probably made the experience seem normal to you, while meeting a black, or indian or armenian, probably seems much more diverse simply because its unusual. If you saw only reall technological computers in California and really technological cars in Canada you would probably say that Canada is much more advanced just because you had never experienced the technological cars, while being used to technological computers.
Now, While american culture doesnt necessarily enjoy integration, that doesnt mean that your experience has drawn you to the right conclusion. What you have is called a selective sample. I assume that you are drawing your examples from Toronto, which, like any big city is probably a large immigration center in Canada. If you go to any big city, you are likely to find much more diversity than elsewhere in the country. Meanwhile, you are comparing this to suburban california (thats really the only place youve lived, so that even if youve visited say... new york, its hard to measure the diversity from just a vacation unless you spend a substantial time there). In living in new york though, I can attest that there are definately many more immigrants there than in San Francisco (or at least it seems like it, again I could also be suffering from the shift of color syndrome). Whether toronto has even more, I dont know.
As far as the intigration goes, that depends on two things. 1. the level of intigration the immigrant wants. And 2. the level of intigration the citizens want. I do admit, that the level of integration that Americans want is lower than that of the Canadians. But I think that its not quite as huge a gap as you believed it to be, because that is being distorted by the other two factors.
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Post by Monolith on Sept 6, 2005 21:30:25 GMT -5
The problem with looking at the US as the epitome of equality and diversity is that the whole thing is a load of crap from start to, if not finish, right now. History books tend to skew the image rather badly with a rather simpathetic look towards th original settlers. They may have been religious fugitives, but many were also ciminals and other people less deserving of sympathy. The came to America, enslaved Africans and brought them over, slaughtered all but about 2.5% of the indigionous people, got a lucky land purchase from the French (land which actually belonged to the native people), and then stole even more land from the Mexicans. Not only this, but all that crap in the declaration of independence was really just an attempt to get out of paying for the British protecting them in a war the settlers themselves provoked. Things are moving in the right direction, but most of it is a load of BS.
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Post by Arachis on Sept 6, 2005 22:26:36 GMT -5
Personally I think that thats an oversimplified view of history nick and while in retrospect we may have committed grievous errors, there were also a lot of worthy and great things this country has done. Sometimes people made the best decisions they could with the information they had, but nobody is perfect. Sometimes people actually stood for personal gain and stuffed the country over too. But you cant go and overlook the americans who actually did great things, and you cant blame the acts of a few people on every american. And I dont think that things are moving in the right direction I think they are moving in the wrong direction actually.
Finally I never looked at the US as the epitome of equality and diversity.
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Post by dietspam16 on Sept 7, 2005 1:19:09 GMT -5
exactly. the us is very diverse, its just not as special and diverse and ACCEPTING as it thinks it is. its developed this mind set that the countr is theis wonderful melting pot of culture and history, when its not that great. its way more diverse than most places. its just a wide shot from #1, and should realize that. yes toronto is the most diverse area, i think statistically in the world, but i've spent alot of time in a lot of canada, and its the same way everywhere. not to the same degree, but its still there. and theres sharing. not just your culturally us or not. boths ides actually benefit without losing, and asians are the second largerest minority i'd hazard
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Post by Evilduck on Sept 7, 2005 17:24:16 GMT -5
I agree with Nick that History books overemphasize the achievements of America, but every country overglorifies itself due to national pride (and downgrades countries that it doesnt like).
I think The costal regions of America are fairly good about the integration thing, and the middle is pretty bad.
Canada is probably a lot better about ethnical integration than America (haven't been there, but it seems Canadians are just cool about everything) but that doesnt mean America is shitty.
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Post by Monolith on Sept 7, 2005 19:40:05 GMT -5
Sure ther are a few people that stood for something better, but they were few and far between. There are good people everywhere, but that doesn't make the whole place great. If you really look at it, what other country has a history that includes genocide (of the native inhabitants, using everything from cutting off food sources to germ warfare, not to mention your good old fashioned massacher), forced slavery (one of the worst in history), and then the theft of land from another country of equivalent civilization so recently and in such frequency throughout its history. Maybe just my housing situation is depressing me, but after having ventured outside of good old Los Altos, the US really doesn't look so nice anymore. Try walking through a getto, or living with someone who cheats on his girlfriend regularly. I think you'll find it hard to hold this country's great morals as anything that the great governing majority can considder as really their own. Don't get me wrong, there lots of great people out there. Lots of reasonable, conscientious US citizens, but there are just as many, probably more actually, pieces of moral trash. These aren't the nasty, evil, and vile creatures that one might think, but simply people without any morals to speak of.
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