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Post by henry on May 9, 2007 16:08:01 GMT -5
Amen, brother.
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Post by Arachis on May 9, 2007 20:05:13 GMT -5
Ive got to agree with Alex. Although, there is a certain satisfaction in knowing that you can do it without the help, but most people will never get there.
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Post by henry on May 9, 2007 20:18:59 GMT -5
It's not just that, though. People fail to recognize that the truth that is told is not the abiding truth. That is to say, words fail. High can mean elated, under the influence of crack cocaine, under the influence of methamphetamine, under the influence of marijuana, in a religious fervor, above something, etc. Just because we associate the same word with two things doesn't mean they're the same or even related.
I will admit however that it is theoretically possible to induce marijuana-like intoxication through a concentrated mental effort, such as self-hypnosis, but...there's no point. Smoking marijuana is much easier.
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Post by Paveltc on May 9, 2007 22:18:34 GMT -5
Without ever having the drug experience you don't know what it is that you are trying to achieve without it. And Henry makes a good point, one can be high on pot and one can be high on vicodin. The two, however, are quite different. So the word "high" doesn't really mean anything, other than some kind of intoxication (usually pleasant) as a result of something.
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Post by Archagon on May 9, 2007 23:08:31 GMT -5
No, I think it would be more like comparing driving to teleportation. Sure, you could drive to North Connecticut pretty quickly, but if you managed to build a working teleporter, you'd be able to get there immediately, avoid looking for parking, and save tons of money on gas.
In other words, it would eliminate one's dependency on external chemicals, as well as any potential negative side effects associated with them.
People say that drugs can "expand your mind". (Which I very much doubt, but never mind that...) Wouldn't it be amazing to have this "ability" without having to reach for a joint/pill/whatever?
"Stoned" - the subject of this thread - refers to marijuana use more than anything else.
As pointed out above, "highness" is not exclusive to drugs. Most people have already experienced "highness" in one form or another; the trick would be to prolong this state without the aid of chemicals.
(Is all "highness" the same? Probably not, but if the end result is similar, then who cares?)
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Post by henry on May 9, 2007 23:19:45 GMT -5
The end result is not similar. It is a simple confusion of language that you are experiencing.
Also, it was you that put forth the term "highness" in relation to marijuana/spiritual awareness. That is why I pointed out the inadequacies of the term.
"People say that drugs can "expand your mind". (Which I very much doubt, but never mind that...) Wouldn't it be amazing to have this "ability" without having to reach for a joint/pill/whatever?"
It would be nice. It isn't going to happen.
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Post by Archagon on May 9, 2007 23:23:11 GMT -5
Are you referring to "highness" as a general term, or marijuana highness vs. self-induced highness?
In time, I'd love to prove you wrong.
Many highs are very simple physiologically, in the sense that they already occur (albeit in limited qualities) naturally, and use a limited set of chemicals already present in the body.
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Post by henry on May 9, 2007 23:25:58 GMT -5
How can you expect to reproduce the complex physiological and psychological effects of cannabis using only your mind, when you yourself have little knowledge and no first hand knowledge of these effects?
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Post by Archagon on May 9, 2007 23:44:34 GMT -5
Because a cannabis high is an exaggeration and amalgamation of certain emotions and mind states that I have felt before. It's not a unique or isolated state, much like any other state in the human body.
Also -- as far as I can tell, it's not as physiologically complex as you may think. (Prove me wrong? I'm basing this statement on my psychology textbook.)
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Post by Paveltc on May 9, 2007 23:49:55 GMT -5
Because a cannabis high is an exaggeration and amalgamation of certain emotions and mind states that I have felt before. It's not an isolated mental state. Also -- as far as I can tell, it's not as physiologically complex as you may think. (Prove me wrong? I'm basing this statement on my psychology textbook.) You may have something there. But I think that the combination of mind states brought on by a cannabis high are too complex to be brought on without the drug. Perhaps they could be brought on without it, but it would be extremely difficult. This is all from the fact that a cannabis high is extremely difficult to describe. And because of this, it seems like it would be difficult to bring on because you wouldn't exactly know what you are looking for. It should also be considered that there are a lot of different types of highs that can come from cannabis.
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Post by henry on May 10, 2007 0:06:06 GMT -5
Because a cannabis high is an exaggeration and amalgamation of certain emotions and mind states that I have felt before. It's not a unique or isolated state, much like any other state in the human body. You're wrong. Disagree? Go find out first hand. I know, in the strictest sense of the word, that cannabis imparts several effects that I have never felt when not under its influence. Namely, an intense alteration of abstract thought processes (usually positive), a physical sensation that can be poorly described as "fuzziness," an intense specific alteration of perception of music (including increase in emotional intensity of music), and an ability to appreciate the Simpsons on a level unimaginable to the non-stoner. Also: the medical and academic establishment have very poor data on cannabis due to it's extreme illegality and the subsequent paucity of research. Please read this list of effects of cannabis and come back when you've recreated them all simultaneously with the proper time windows. www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml
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Post by Archagon on May 10, 2007 0:11:35 GMT -5
Really?
Okay. Tell me, then: what's so great about being stoned? Why do you do it? What do you feel?
(I see you've edited your post. Anything else?)
Everybody is different. As you very well know, your experience may not reflect the experiences of others.
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Post by henry on May 10, 2007 0:22:15 GMT -5
edit to your edit: that is true. however, I have known many stoners and they all seem to experience these same effects, as do people on the internet, and there is a general agreement that weed is the sole cause of these effects. ...... Yeah sure. Why do I stay high? When I smoke marijuana, it brings me a: closer to God, and b: closer to pleasure. I like both of these experiences. Marijuana increases the pleasure associated with pleasurable activities, such as exercise, eating, sex, and being. This sounds a little scary, however, it does not increase pleasure as drugs like cocaine and heroin do and is not physically addictive or particularly psychologically addictive. Marijuana does more than increase simple pleasures. It can also relax the mind and body, allowing one to be a more effective and content being. It is an excellent aid in chilling out or sleeping, although it will generally not put to sleep a person who wants to stay awake. Marijuana can also allow one to focus more intensely. This skill can be carried over to non-stoned life as well, and is one effect of marijuana that can be attained without marijuana to varying degrees. Music is much more enjoyable on marijuana, largely because the marijuana allows one to absorb the music with the entirety of one's being, appreciating it more fully than one could without this concentration. This focusing effect can also aid meditation or any task that requires attention. Sadness is utterly incompatible with marijuana. When I am feeling down, like, extremely severely down, I used to engage in destructive behavior to cope. Now, I try to smoke marijuana instead. When I'm really pissed off or sad about something and I can't see the positive, marijuana makes the positive shine in all its glory. These are a few reasons why I smoke marijuana.
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Post by dietspam16 on May 10, 2007 16:41:13 GMT -5
I like the teleportation metaphor alot, actually. Why? Because I can't teleport, you can't teleport, and I have no hope of ever teleporting. According to Buddhism, only Buddha and maybe two other people ever achieved actual nirvana, and they ceased existing on this plane. And to get there they spent alot of time napping/meditating.
Also, any state you reach naturally or through mind-altering drugs uses the same chemicals in your brain. All pot or crack do is trigger reactions in our minds, so all you're doing is simulating the natural experience at will and to greater degree. Sure crack will permanently fuck up your brain chemicals (endorphins) but there is not evidence that Cannabis fucks with your natural cannabinoids in the long term or permanently.
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Post by Archagon on May 10, 2007 19:12:17 GMT -5
According to Buddhism, only Buddha and maybe two other people ever achieved actual nirvana, and they ceased existing on this plane. And to get there they spent alot of time napping/meditating. Nirvana != getting high. Also, I don't believe in nirvana. Also, your argument lacks any concrete evidence. (So does mine, but at least I have a method in mind. How do you know it's impossible?) Maybe not, but it's still an external trigger. You can't turn it on or off, or control it to any significant degree. Henry -- thanks for the post. I'll respond to it when I, er, figure out what exactly I was trying to accomplish by having you post it.
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