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Post by Blues on May 18, 2006 0:10:19 GMT -5
personally I think Cloud would ruin the feel. Solid Snake is a stretch, but at least he's not an exclusive PS chara. and...I dunno. I hate the FF series, and it would really ruin the SSBB expirience for me if he was in there.
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Post by Random on May 18, 2006 0:28:18 GMT -5
please quote me saying that its going to be cloud if you're going to say something like that, you might notice that i didn't actually say that it was going to be cloud, i put forward a freaking example
and with your second bit, this is the way i see this conversation going
me: cloud would be interesting you: cloud has no connection to nintendo me: there doesn't neccesarily need to be one you: yea there needs to be one me: well i'm not thinking about it with that requirement you: there has to be one me: i don't see a need for it you: there has to be one
etc. . .
and you know what
just because you and terrance don't like cloud (don't give me the bullshit saying that thats not what you think, you wouldn't be throwing in stuff like whiny if you weren't aiming for that) doesn't mean nintendo won't throw it in or consider it, and for fucks sake i never even said they'd throw it in
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Post by Monolith on May 18, 2006 1:56:24 GMT -5
You stated that you thought it would be interesting and a possibility: and i never said it was likely, just saying it'd be interesting (and actually in my opinion the more characters the better for the most part) and possible even if he hasn't been on a nintendo console I think there's not way in hell it could happen. The reason that requirement is necessary is that it would be rediculous for Nintendo to create a sequel to SSB, a game the consists of Nintendo owned and now Nintendo tied characters, to add in some random character with no relation whatsoever with Nintendo. Sure they have the ability to make a game with a completely non-Nintendo character from another company, but why the hell would they? In that case it would be Nintendo vs. Square-Enix, not SSB. You're oversimplifying our arguments and refusing to disprove them. and with your second bit, this is the way i see this conversation going me: cloud would be interesting you: cloud has no connection to nintendo me: there doesn't neccesarily need to be one you: yea there needs to be one me: well i'm not thinking about it with that requirement you: there has to be one me: i don't see a need for it you: there has to be one etc. . . I think I made my reasons pretty clear as to why there needs to be a connection. You've made no real argument, I see no support for your stance. If a tie to the company is unnecessar, then tell us why. and you know what just because you and terrance don't like cloud (don't give me the bullshit saying that thats not what you think, you wouldn't be throwing in stuff like whiny if you weren't aiming for that) I don't hate Cloud, nor do I like him. He's pretty much an emo bishi soldier with a big sword who lacks any sort of personality. This is irrelevant to the conversation. My personaly opinions have nothing to do with my ability to make a credible argument, mister FF fanboy. doesn't mean nintendo won't throw it in or consider it, and for fucks sake i never even said they'd throw it in This kinda contradicts itself.
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Post by Random on May 18, 2006 2:08:39 GMT -5
1. i have read absolute nothing that you have said that has come anywhere near explaining why there has to be a connection until that last post
2. nintendo's base of characters that're either actual nintendo characters or characters that've appeared more than once on a nintendo system are actually pretty damn limited unless you want to start digging REEEALLY deep. major gamecube titles? wind waker, various mario sports games, metroid prime, and after that, to find something popular you have to go third party for titles like tales of symphonia, at a certain point, they're gonna run out, and SSB is a nice title that'll get consoles sold, so they want to continue expanding it and keeping it alive
3. wtf??? FF fanboy?? i played one FF title that was actually numbered (you can count tactics or crystal chronicles but those're both rather divergent from the numbered series) and wasn't that big of a fan of it. i have never even seen FFVII being played, i recall seeing FFX being played once, and thats all i've ever seen. i cannot name more than maybe 3 characters from the entire FF series and i only know those because of random flash movies, whereas you add words with obviously picked out negative connotation
4. contradictory? lemme make that more clear for you. i think its a possibility, i didn't say that they'd put him in. if you still don't understand, i honestly don't know what to say
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Post by Monolith on May 18, 2006 2:48:29 GMT -5
1. That's because it was obvious.
2. You seem to have forgotten the crapload of characters on the SNES, NES, and Gameboy. Limited, bah! If they want to expend their repetuior, then they're not gonna have much success liscencing characters from old, outdated games from consoles that aren't even theirs. Seriously, even if they tried to put him in, what's the likelyhood that Square-Enix is gonna accept such a bogus liscencing agreement.
3. It's got just as much merrit as your claim, since you seem to be arguing so fervently for the mere chance of his inclusion. That's my point.
4. You're arguing to essentially the same ends. You're right, though, perhaps it wasn't contradictory so much as unnecessary.
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Post by Random on May 18, 2006 2:59:45 GMT -5
1. "you're wrong" "why?" "because its obvious that i'm right". . . and yet you ask me for the why
2. people're more interested in using characters that they recognize, and the generation that knows about all the old SNES NES and gameboy characters is getting older, some graduating from college (and for what its worth, i'm not forgetting them, i never got to know them, never had an SNES or NES, and as far as gameboy goes. . . . kirby + zelda, that was mostly it). hey, if sony gets royalties, they're just getting more money for something old that they wouldn't get much more from otherwise
3. thats right, except for the huge gaping flaw that i'm really arguing for 3rd party characters that don't show up on nintendo consoles often or at all
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Post by Monolith on May 18, 2006 3:34:15 GMT -5
1. I thought it was obvious that SSB was a game made for Nintendo characters and Nintendo tie ins. I figured you'd be smart enough to get this. I guess I was wrong. 2. There really aren't that many spots in the SSB roster that need filling. In any case, had you ever seen Pit or Mr. GameandWatch before SSB? I hadn't. I'm sure there are enough characters from the old generation that people will recognize, Megaman and any of the Belmonts from Castlevania among many others, Nintendo doesn't seem to care. 3. i agree with both the castlevania and capcom bits. . . though i wouldn't mind seeing even more ones *cough*cloud Looks pretty specific to me. Edit: goodnight, assuming my internets is working tomorrow (it was supposed to be cut off yesterday), we can continue then.
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Post by Blues on May 18, 2006 3:39:26 GMT -5
2. You seem to have forgotten the crapload of characters on the SNES, NES, and Gameboy. Limited, bah! exactly. why being more charas in it? who cares if that generation is graduating? most of the good charas have made it to later consols anyway. And the Megaman series. was at least on the NES - GC. FF, if I'm getting what Nick is saying, is a) not as established, and b) has never been on a nintendo consel.
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Post by Random on May 18, 2006 9:49:39 GMT -5
1. yea and i thought you were smart enough not to limit it to that, and for what its worth, if you pulled that kind of shit in any actual debate, everything you'd said would be discredited, firstly because you directly took a shot at me, and secondly, because now your little argument looks like this:
"you're wrong" "why?" "because its obvious that i'm right" "i don't really see it that way" "well you're stupid then"
2. i had played several games with mr. game and watch and i knew of kid icarus but not so much pit
3. yea, that was the beginning, i randomly throw out a popular character and now i'm an FF fanboy, brilliant
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Post by Blues on May 18, 2006 10:57:59 GMT -5
well, why'd you suggest him in the first place? obvi. FF was on your mind, at least for a second.
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Post by Monolith on May 18, 2006 17:07:34 GMT -5
1. yea and i thought you were smart enough not to limit it to that, and for what its worth, if you pulled that kind of shit in any actual debate, everything you'd said would be discredited, firstly because you directly took a shot at me, and secondly, because now your little argument looks like this: "you're wrong" "why?" "because its obvious that i'm right" "i don't really see it that way" "well you're stupid then" Honestly, think about it. How is it not obvious that SSB is a game consisting of Nintendo linked characters? It's an absolute given. It is the definition of the game, and I'd expect you to know about what you're arguing. Please, spare me the pathetic abreviations, you're just building a straw man. I've explained it in black and white now, so drop it. 3. yea, that was the beginning, i randomly throw out a popular character and now i'm an FF fanboy, brilliant I suppose I didn't make myself very clear. Maybe you aren't one, but you certainly sound like one.
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Post by Random on May 18, 2006 17:55:07 GMT -5
1. that is exactly what you're saying
- first, you offer no reasons for your view and then say you've sufficiently illuminated it - then when i say you haven't said anything at all about the reason you say that its obvious so it doesn't need explaining - i question the logic of using that kind of an argument ("its obvious that i'm right so i don't need to justify my view") - you immediately go for the "if you can't see it you're stupid"
show me where that outline differs from reality, and if you can't do that, try and justify that kind of bullshit. a debate is a discussion that concerns two opinions, not two people, and not two opinions that're attached to two people
3. you outright call me an FF fanboy and now suddenly i'm wrong in thinking that you meant i'm an FF fanboy. . . . . uhuh. . . . . not to mention, the bs about "oh well you're arguing fervently for him"? yea you're arguing "fervently" against him, so you might wanna find some support for your claim that doesn't also mean something about you that you denied earlier
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Post by Monolith on May 18, 2006 20:00:16 GMT -5
1) I think there's not way in hell it could happen. The reason that requirement is necessary is that it would be ridiculous for Nintendo to create a sequel to SSB, a game the consists of Nintendo owned and now Nintendo tied characters, to add in some random character with no relation whatsoever with Nintendo. Sure they have the ability to make a game with a completely non-Nintendo character from another company, but why the hell would they? In that case it would be Nintendo vs. Square-Enix, not SSB. There's the black and white. You already seemed to accept this, so why are you going back on it now. Is there something wrong with it? If so please tell me. I've just explained why it's obvious as well. But just to make you happy, I'll reiterate ALL OF IT again: Nintendo's Super Smash Brothers series has been characterized by the fact that every game up until now has consisted of SOLELY Nintendo characters. The most recent edition has seen the addition of Snake, a character who, while not Nintendo owned, has appeared on several of the consoles in the past. While the connection is sketchy, it's still present. I thought this fact was self evident or in other words obvious so I didn't bother explaining it. This is why I believe that Cloud Strife, a character who has no tie to Nintendo whatsoever, and probably never will, would not fit the theme of the SSB series WHATSOEVER. To include him would be to contradict the very nature of the game and would make no sense. Could Nintendo do it? They have the capability to do so assuming they could obtain the rights from Square-Enix. Could it happen? There's maybe a one in a billion chance, but realistically: NO. As for your dumbing down of the situation, you failed to include the explanation I gave which i quoted above. I am not saying I'm right because it's obvious I'm right, I gave you an explanation which I am stating is not exactly rocket science. When I said I was disappointed you weren't smart enough to get it, it was because I figured you'd understand Nintendo's rather obvious goal behind the game of reuniting classic Nintendo characters in one place. If you still think my argument is bogus then there's something wrong. 3. 3. It's got just as much merrit as your claim, since you seem to be arguing so fervently for the mere chance of his inclusion. That's my point. When I stated 'That's my point' I meant that I was making a point by posting it, I do not actually think you're a fanboy (though I do think you're acting like one). You're correct in that this wasn't clear, but I'm no changing my stance in the least bit.
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Post by Random on May 18, 2006 21:12:26 GMT -5
1. ok, nice big chunk of text, but the big problem is, where did i say it was bogus? i said 1. i have read absolute nothing that you have said that has come anywhere near explaining why there has to be a connection until that last post and you responded with 1. That's because it was obvious. what i have a problem with is your apparent issue with spewing out inflamatory crap when i don't agree with you, such as the more or less "if you don't get what i mean [and possibly agree, though that bit wasn't explicitly in there like the rest] you're stupid" dressed up with positive language instead of the negative used above
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Post by Monolith on May 18, 2006 21:44:10 GMT -5
Big words coming from Mr. "no fucking shit." I'm sorry I get annoyed when you put words in my mouth in your little summaries. Also, I think I was clear enough when I posted this. The whole point of SSB is for classic characters to be put into one compilation. Cloud has zippo to do with Nintendo... You have the capacity for logical reasoning, so use it. Don't be a pain and make me spell everything out for you.
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